Commentary by Stephen Macaulay
Remember civility?
That was the social behavior that is respectful of others. Patient. Open and engaged. Disagreeing without being disagreeable.
You know, everything Donald Trump isn’t, especially when dealing with people who aren’t likely to kiss his ring and then shave his back.
Trump sat down with ABC News’s Terry Moran, anchor and senior national correspondent.
One of the things that is always good is the truth.
Something that Trump seems to have a difficult time with.
Take, for example, his statement: “I’ve taken the trade deficit down to a number that’s very, very — starting to get really good.”
In January 2025, still considered “Biden’s economy,” the U.S. trade deficit was $131.4 billion, according to the US Bureau of Economic Analysis.
Credit to him, because in February 2025 the deficit decreased to $122.7 billion.
But then there is the difficult part because the trade deficit in March 2025 — solidly in the Trump zone — was $162 billion.
It doesn’t take a degree from the Wharton School to know that 162 is a whole lot larger than 131.
And in the context of deficits, it’s not “really good.”
Or there’s the claim that sounds good to, presumably, the base that China “were making from us a trillion dollars a year. They were ripping us off like nobody’s every ripped us off.” And according to Trump, essentially every country that the United States has trade with is “ripping us off.”
Were that claim about “trillions of dollars a year” anywhere close to the truth would get him a pass for rhetorical effect, but here’s the thing:
Assuming that “ripping us off” means that they have sold us goods that we imported, US imports from China were:
- 2018: $538.51 billion
- 2019: $449.11 billion
- 2020: $432.55 billion
- 2021: $506.29 billion
- 2022: $427.23 billion
- 2023: $438.95 billion
- 2024: $462.62 billion
No evidence of a trillion.
And while not denying that there is an imbalance in the amounts of trade between the two countries, during this period here is the value of the US exports to China, or presumably the amounts that US businesses were “ripping off” China:
- 2018: $120.28 billion
- 2019: $106.48 billion
- 2020: $124.58 billion
- 2021: $151.43 billion
- 2022: $154.12 billion
- 2023: $147.77 billion
- 2024: $143.54 billion
Trump tends to imply that trade is all one way: That the Chinese, and essentially every other country on Earth, are forcing their stuff on the US with the US being a naif among thieves.
(A digression: Here’s a way to think about trade. Let’s say you go to Starbucks and order a grande iced caramel macchiato with extra caramel drizzle and two pumps of vanilla syrup. This could set you back about $6.75. Odds are you could buy the ingredients — the espresso beans, milk, caramel syrup, vanilla syrup — and the equipment to make your own grande iced caramel macchiato with extra caramel drizzle and two pumps of vanilla syrup. But the thing is, there would be not only the cost of the equipment — an espresso maker can easily set you back $250 — and the ingredients, but there is the time necessary to make the beverage and then do all of the subsequent cleanup. It is likely that you find it more cost-effective to buy the drink from Starbucks. Is it expensive? That depends on your point of view of crafted coffee beverages. Is Starbucks “ripping you off” when you deliberately go in and buy one? In Trump’s World that is evidently the case.)
Well into the interview, Moran asked about the handling of the immigrants — illegal or otherwise — by the Administration.
Which led, among other things, for Trump to say, “Well, lemme ask you. Do they get hearings when — when Biden allowed 21 million — ‘cause I think the number’s 21, 20 million — people to flow into our country? He had 21 million people that came into our country through a stupid open border.”
That darn Biden.
But here’s something of interest:
In October 2024 the House Committee on Homeland Security put out a press release titled “Startling Stats Factsheet: Fiscal Year 2024 Ends With Nearly 3 Million Inadmissible Encounters, 10.8 Million Total Encounters since FY2021.”
The Committee chastised the Biden Administration. The Committee Chair Mark E. Green, MD (R-TN), issued a statement saying, in part, “There are countless examples of those aliens going on to commit crimes against innocent Americans, and many of them create financial burdens for state and local governments who are already struggling to provide resources to their citizens. We simply cannot go on like this as a country. These open-borders policies have devastated our safety, security, and sovereignty. It’s time to return to policies that secured our border and our nation.”
In other words, Biden is to blame.
But here’s the curious part: It found 10.8 million. Where does Trump’s 20 million come from?
Again, the truth seems to be optional.
To return to the subject of civility.
In a spirited exchange as to whether Kilmar Abrego Garcia has “MS 13” tattoos on his fingers — Trump insists he does; Moran said it was Photoshopped — an exchange deep into the interview,
Trump said:
“I’m giving you the big break of a lifetime. You know, you’re doing the interview, I picked you because — frankly I never heard of you, but that’s okay.”
And there you have it.
Because Trump is finding someone who is not agreeing with him, he has to push back in a way that tries to diminish his interlocutor, tries to throw him off his game.
“You, Mr. Nobody, are getting a big chance because of Me. And don’t you dare forget it.”
And, of course, after Moran politely said, “Fair enough, he did have tattoos that can be interpreted that way. I'm not an expert on them. I want to turn to Ukraine, sir,” this occurred:
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: No, no. Terry --
TERRY MORAN: I -- I want to get to Ukraine --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Terry, no, no. No, no. He had MS as clear as you can be. Not "interpreted." This is why people --
TERRY MORAN: Alright.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: -- no longer believe --
TERRY MORAN: Well.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: -- the news, because it's fake news –
And it goes on and on to the point where Trump says:
“Why don’t you just say, ‘Yes, he does,’ and, you know, go on to something else.”
Of course. Because there is disagreement with what Trump thinks, it can’t be real.
And Moran should just wither under Trump’s claims and admit something that Moran politely described by saying “It’s contested.”
The interview moves on to Ukraine (“And this is Biden’s war”).
Moran asks Trump whether he trusts Putin.
And then there’s this response:
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I don't trust you. I don't trust -- I don't trust a lot of people. I don't trust you. Look at you. You come in all shootin' for bear. You're so happy to do the interview.
TERRY MORAN: I am happy --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: And then you start hitting me with fake questions. You start tellin' me that a guy -- whose hand is covered with a tattoo --
TERRY MORAN: Alright. We're back to that.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: -- doesn't have the tattoo, you know.
TERRY MORAN: Alright.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I mean, you're being dishonest.
This is not the behavior of a serious man.
And as the interview nears its close:
TERRY MORAN: I'm gonna ask -- if I may, do you think the reputation of the United States has gone down under your presidency?
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I -- no, I think it's gone way up, and I think we're a respected country again. We were laughed at all over the world. We had -- a president that couldn't walk up a flight of stairs, couldn't walk down a flight of stairs, couldn't walk across a stage without falling. We had a president that was grossly incompetent. You knew it, I knew it, and everybody knew it. But you guys didn't want to write it because you're fake news.
TERRY MORAN: Alright. Thank you --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: And, by the way, ABC is one of the worst. I have to be honest with you …
So much for civility.